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A lot can happen in 10 minutes, so let’s straighten a few things out:
- I never said I wanted Detroit’s auto workers to compete against auto workers overseas who earn $5 an hour. I said I wanted them to bring their salaries in line with those earned by auto workers at foreign-owned manufacturers here in the U.S. That would mean a pay cut of about $10 per hour. Since the average United Auto Workers union member earns about $55 per hour (some newer workers earn less), that would mean a salary of about $45 per hour instead (New York Times, Dec. 12, 2008). It was the racist and paranoid Mr. Pat Buchanan who said that I wanted American auto workers to compete with Chinese factory workers who earn $2 per hour.
- Some viewers said they were surprised to find themselves in agreement with the ultra-conservative Buchanan. That’s not surprising at all if you are a member of the UAW or a supporter of virtually any American trade union. Mr. Buchanan is a racist who wants to close our borders to non-whites. It was he who wrote “Only whites have the appropriate ‘genetic endowments’ to keep America from collapsing.” But, he also wants to close our borders to foreign trade, which would hold the American consumer market hostage to whatever price the unions want to put on products and services. We would be broke, our economy utterly devastated in less than a decade. If you think that what you are witnessing now is an economic meltdown, please understand that this is nothing compared to what the U.S. would look like under Buchanan’s economic plan. To get a clear view of what he thinks of the rest of the world, get a gander at his latest book, a paranoid screed of regret over the U.S. having gotten involved in WWII (“The Unnecessary War”). Never mind that the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor and were in league with Adolf Hitler, never mind that Hitler was murdering innocents by the millions. Buchanan would have preferred that America stay on its side of the pond, drawing a paycheck, comfortably numb, totally ignorant to the rest of the world—in other words, living like the UAW leadership who have insisted for four decades that they can continue to do things the way they have always done them despite the growing global market.
- It was not the union laborers nor any particular American brilliance that helped America dominate the world market after World War II. It was our dedication to the principle of freedom—our willingness to get involved in WWII. We came late to the war, and over many objections in an anti-war Congress, but we came to it nonetheless. And, as some have pointed out, we might only have responded to the Japanese. In the end, however, we did the right thing. (In the spirit of full disclosure, my father served on Guadalcanal and was wounded there, and my uncle was part of the occupation command of Japan. As for the European theatre, reading the anti-war editorials of the Saturday Evening Post 1939-1942 gives a vivid pictiure of FDR's battle with his anti-European-war Congress.) As David Colander, an esteemed economist at Middlebury College has explained, America prospered so remarkably because our economy was the last one standing after World War II. Clearly, it was because we waded into the war in Europe that we were able to keep the war from our own shores (I do not have to tell history buffs how close the Germans and the Japanese came to bombing the U.S.—they know). In doing so, we saved our factories and plants from destruction, a luxury that European manufacturers did not have. By 1946, the only substantial manufacturing base in the world was ours. We feasted on foreign orders for decades as Europe and Japan slowly and painfully extracted themselves from a condition that no American who wasn’t there can even imagine (although reading Andrei Cherny's "The Candy Bombers" is incredibly instructive). We also benefitted from a generous and open immigration policy. Among the many refugees who came to the U.S. during the war in Europe and its aftermath were numerous skilled workers and brilliant thinkers. The name Einstein might ring a bell. Again, we benefitted enormously from the two things that Buchanan and his trade union protectionist followers oppose: foreign trade and workers who were not unionized. It was also during this period that some manufacturers in the U.S. moved South to escape union labor, which contributed hugely to the resurrection of the South.
- It is time to stop blaming the recent international money crisis for a state of affairs that has been in place in Detroit since 1982—the year the first Honda rolled off an assembly line in the U.S.. Honda may have recently lost money, but that was the first time in the manufacturer’s history that it had done so; Detroit has been in a downward spiral for years and its interim answer to its crisis, to produce gas guzzling vehicles, was to the detriment of our nation.
That said, I do not want autoworkers’ families to suffer. I want them to be able to stay in their homes and be able to pay for their medical care. I want them to have a better future than they now have. They are not the cause of their industry’s catastrophe; their leadership, both union and corporate, and the deeply entrenched culture it supports is to blame.
As John Cunningham Wood explained in his 2002 scholarly exploration of Henry Ford’s approach to business and what has happened to Ford Motor Company, the UAW forged a culture in Detroit that required a rigid division of labor, which discounted the possibility of innovation coming from people on the production line. “A number of ‘unproductive’ practices, especially union protective rules, have developed due to the labor-management-conflict orientation inherent in this model,” writes Wood. “Furthermore, the model requires that management renounce any use of the innovative potential of employees. But there is, particularly among the production workers, who are most familiar with the technology and work organization, a rich potential for innovation that can result in considerable productivity gains.”
That’s why a better use of taxpayer money, as Nicolas von Hoffman at The Nation (the self-described flagship of the left) has written, would be to put it into expanded and extended unemployment benefits for auto workers. The Big Three should file for bankruptcy and restructure without the UAW contracts. Please remember that GM has just completed a $300 million plant in Russia. Ford has opened a state-of-the-art plant in Brazil. Obviously, the manufacturers are aware that the market is global and that production would be more profitable where the UAW is not.
As labor policy analyst James Sherk, at the conservative Heritage Foundation, has written: “Excessive wages and benefits are not the only way the UAW has hurt the once-mighty Big Three. The UAW has also saddled them with complex work rules that allow only certain workers to do certain tasks, and no one else.” Such conditions stifle innovation and make state-of-the-art advancement impossible.
- I did not solicit the opportunity to be on MSNBC’s Hardball with Chris Matthews. On Monday, Dec. 21, my editor in chief, Kevin Moreau, received a voicemail from a producer for Air America’s The Lionel Show. The producer had seen my column, “Let the Big Three Die,” about the need to restructure and resurrect Detroit in a better form, on the Internet and invited me to debate the auto industry bailout the next day with guest host Nancy Skinner, who ran for Congress from Michigan’s 9th District in 2006. Her largest campaign contributor was the UAW. I accepted although I was very aware that Air America’s liberal audience would not be particularly welcoming to me. Hours after the Air America appearance, Moreau received a call from the producer of MSNBC’s Hardball asking that I appear on the show. I agreed, with the same concern as before. Nonetheless, I take it that other commentators may have been off on holiday already and if I didn’t say what needed to be said, then who would?
6. For those of you who were offended by the sight of my cleavage, let me say this: Your frantic observations might be more productively addressed to your mental health therapists than on my blog. I wore the exact blouse on a recent appearance on Georgia Public Broadcast Television and received no such comments whatsoever. Perhaps we are less uptight here in the South about a woman’s physical attributes. I will not apologize for my womanly bosom. It was clad decently and it is as God gave it to me.
Here is a transcript of the show:
BARNICLE: Welcome back to HARDBALL.
So, are blue-collar union workers being unfairly blamed for Detroit`s economic mess and economic problems in general? In today`s "New York Times," Bob Herbert -- Bob Herbert wrote -- quote -- "We need some perspective here. It`s becoming an article of faith in the discussions over an auto industry rescue that unionized autoworkers should be taken off of their high horses and shoved into a deal in which they would not make significantly more in wages and benefits than comparable workers at Japanese carmakers like Toyota. That`s fine if it`s agreed to by the autoworkers themselves, in the context of an industry bailout, at a time when the country is in the midst of a financial emergency. But it stinks to high heaven as something we should be aspiring to" -- unquote.
Joining us now, MSNBC political analyst Pat Buchanan, and Stephanie Ramage, a news editor and columnist with "The Sunday Paper" in Atlanta.
Stephanie, you were against any bailout for Detroit. Why?
STEPHANIE RAMAGE, NEWS EDITOR, "THE SUNDAY PAPER": I was -- well, actually, because -- and this isn`t only my idea -- I want you to know that -- I read a wonder column by Nicholas von Hoffman over at "The Nation."
And, in that, he said, bankruptcy exists for a reason. It`s for an opportunity to restructure. Restructuring would allow the Big Three to get out and away from those union contracts. And I realized...
(CROSSTALK)
BARNICLE: What`s wrong with the union contracts?
RAMAGE: The job of the unions is to protect jobs. And that`s fine and good. But, when that becomes a priority over the health of the industry, then that`s not good. Then we have a problem.
I don`t want to demonize the autoworkers. I really don`t want anybody wants to demonize them, Mike. I think what we want is for them to have a future. And they`re not going to have a future if they continue doing things exactly the same way that they have done them for the past 40 years, while the world has changed.
BARNICLE: Well, Stephanie, let me -- let...
RAMAGE: You know, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.
BARNICLE: Yes, I -- yes. Yes, Albert Einstein.
RAMAGE: And that`s the insanity that we see in Detroit.
BARNICLE: Yes. No, I get it. I get it. But let me ask you a question.
You say, you know, you don`t -- it`s the autoworkers. The autoworkers did this over 30 years. The autoworkers didn`t design these bust-out cars. The union didn`t design them.
(LAUGHTER)
RAMAGE: No, that`s the whole point. They aren`t designing anything, which brings me to my next point.
When Detroit is hiring lobbyists to make sure that congressmen vote against tougher CAFE standards, and they are hiring lawyers...
BARNICLE: That`s management. That`s management.
RAMAGE: ... and they are hiring lawyers -- and they are hiring lawyers to make sure that the better ideas are buried in the U.S. Patent Office, we need to reform Detroit. We don`t need to reward Detroit with $17 billion in taxpayer money.
BARNICLE: But -- but it`s OK to give $700 billion to guys who are making a million dollars a year in salary?
RAMAGE: You know what? Obviously, that wasn`t OK.
(LAUGHTER)
BARNICLE: Duh.
RAMAGE: You know, it sounded like a -- it`s one of those things that it was a great idea at the time, but you look at it, and -- and, obviously, the results of that have been mixed.
My fear with the auto industry is this. You know, actually, I have worked at a car lot. Let me just go ahead and get that out of the way. And I know that the slowest time of the year for them is January to March. As you know, the condition on which this bridge loan is based requires that the industry show its viability by March 31st. I don`t believe that`s going to happen.
I think we`re going to see Detroit coming back to Washington in February to ask for more money to ask for an extension on that loan. That puts tax payers like me on the hook for an open-ended loan, because you know that Nancy Pelosi is going to give them the money.
BARNICLE: OK. Patrick J. Buchanan, go ahead.
BUCHANAN: Well, I think that -- I agree that they may be back for more money. But I`ll say this, if you let GM go under, you let Chrysler go under, and their suppliers -- many of their suppliers will go Chapter 11 as well. I think you`ll have tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of workers. And quite frankly, their pensions and their health care benefits are going to fall on the tax payer one way or the other.
Mike, I don`t believe that the United States of America can give up an auto industry when the whole world is going to be buying 100 million cars a year, which is a major consumer item, and we`re going to drop out and give it to the Japanese and the Koreans and the Chinese?
RAMAGE: Oh, Pat, I`m so sorry, but we already dropped out. That`s why our industry has been lagging behind for years now. That is the problem that we have here. What restructuring would allow the industry to do is to regroup. As for all of these small parts manufacturers filing for bankruptcy, look, I`m listening to you. I think we need to expand and extend those unemployment benefits to the workers of Detroit.
BUCHANAN: Stephanie, let me tell you what the problem is. The problem is we want the highest paid workers in the world. We want them to have the most benefits. We want to have the safest, most protected factories. We don`t want to put them into head-to-head competition with Chinese or unsafe factories making two dollars an hour.
The problem is globalization. The problem is globalism.
RAMAGE: Pat, that horse is out of the barn.
BUCHANAN: It is not out of the barn.
Ramage: The horse is out of the barn, Pat. The genie is out of the bottle.
BUCHANAN: Let me tell you something, Stephanie. In 1781, Alexander Hamilton, they had French musket, French uniforms, French ships; he said, we`ve got to be economically independent if we`re going to be politically independent. He structured an economic system called protectionism, put in every Republican platform until 1948. That`s how we became the greatest manufacturing power the world has ever seen, producing everything we consumed here. And the Americans had the highest standard of living the world had ever seen. It can be done.
RAMAGE: Patrick, two corrections…(Interruption by Buchanan)
BUCHANAN: It was done.
RAMAGE: First of all, that was before the age of the Internet. Secondly, we became the greatest power in the world because we were the last economy standing.
BUCHANAN: What does the Internet have to do with it?
RAMAGE: The Internet has everything to do with globalization, Pat. You can buy a product from anywhere in the world thanks to the Internet. Maybe you should try it some time.
BARNICLE: Stephanie, let me ask you a question.
RAMAGE: I want to make one more point.
BARNICLE: Let me ask you a question. It has to do with the concept called imports and exports. It has to do with the number of Toyotas and Nissans that are allowed to come into this country to be sold in this country, and the number of exports, Ford, Chevy, Cadillac, that are allowed in by China and Japan. It`s like this, it`s night and day.
RAMAGE: Mike, I`m so glad that you said that, because that actually takes us back in time again with Pat. Maybe he`ll meet us back there. In 1982, the United Auto Workers pressured the Reagan administration to put limits on foreign imports. You know what resulted from that? Honda putting its own manufacturing plants in the United States. Pat, I`m not asking --
BUCHANAN: That`s exactly what I want it to do.
RAMAGE: I`m asking them to compete with Honda workers here in the south.
BARNICLE: Let Pat speak.
BUCHANAN: Let me tell you something. Let me finish here, right. That`s exactly what Reagan did. Look, I want Honda, Toyota, Nissan plants in this country. I also want their parts made in this country. I also want the Japanese to stop putting taxes on our imports and rebating on their exports. I want to make America the winner in World Trade. That means, Stephanie, we look at this thing as a battle, as a contest, a rivalry, not as just a bunch of consumers looking for what we can buy cheapest now. That`s not how your country became the greatest manufacturing country on Earth, and can be again.
BARNICLE: And that from a guy who drives an 11-year-old Navigator, Stephanie. I`m sorry, we`re out of time.
BUCHANAN: A wonderful car, Stephanie. Try it.
RAMAGE: I drive a Mazda. Thank you, Pat.
BARNICLE: Thanks very much, both of you.
I WOULD LIKE TO ENCOURAGE UAW MEMBERS AND THEIR FAMILIES, ONLY, TO COMMENT ON THIS BLOG.
COMMENTS
First I want to acknowledge that I am a member of the UAW and I currently work for one of the big three. I find it necessary to post a comment to dispel the attacks on my fellow UAW workers. Stephanie Ramage is a clear example of the misinformed media that continues to fail in grasping what is wrong with the American car industry. The first of these issues is her misleading example of UAW hourly pay compared to Toyoda.
I do not make 55 dollars and hour, I make 28.12. Yearly this pay translates to 50,000 to 60,000 a year if I am lucky enough to receive overtime pay. This pay affords me the ability to be a home owner and take care of my family. The misleading printing of 55 dollars a hour is related to the costs of health care and employee pensions. These companies have been in business for more than a hundred years and therefore their costs are higher. It is unfair to request that UAW workers take a pay cut for money that they are not receiving. We should not be penalized for working for a company that believes in taking care of their workers during employment and retirement. I find it shameful that US senators want UAW workers to take a pay cut in order to be in alignment with foreign owned companies. If a senator serves one term, they are awarded full health care and a pension from taxpayer dollars, yet the American worker who pays their salary and benefits is not. It is a sad day when our own countrymen decide that our wage should be foreign based. It is also remarkable that in today's economic ruin, when our country has the highest national debt, that US senators want the American worker to pay less into social security, federal, state, and local taxes. A third of my check every week goes to the government and yet they want me to make less to so they collect less, utterly brilliant. Also, the big three pay more in taxes on all levels than foreign companies. This investment in America is another reason why Americans should support their American companies.
Foreign companies do not make their vehicles here, they assemble them. Sorry to break the conscious cleaner of foreign car owners, but this is the truth. They only assemble the vehicles here to be complainant with federal law. If there was no law, they would probably import all of their vehicles. So please, if you own a Toyoda or Mazda don't smile and stay its built here, it is assembled. The big three employ ten times more employs here than the foreign companies. The American companies do however share the blame in the failure of the US car industry.
The main problem with the big three is their executives. Congresses wants to have parity between the foreign and US companies in respects to pay and I agree. However, this should relate to executive pay. One shocking comparison with US and Foreign auto companies is their hierarchy of management. Chrysler who sells less cars than Toyoda has somewhere between 30-33 vice presidents for certain operations, Toyoda has 3. Something is seriously wrong here when a company who sells less, has ten times more management. Also the contrast in pay is jaw dropping. The average Toyoda executive makes 10-12 times more that its average worker, while a GM executive makes 350 times. [This information can be found a newsgroups.derkeiler.com or type in gm vs Toyoda executive pay at Google.] Rick Waggoner makes 9,500 dollars a hour, what a joke. He has taken a company that was once 50 dollars a share down to under 3 dollars a share. If any of us ever preformed at this level we would be fired. The executive pay has to be cut to Toyoda levels.
The biggest problem I see from a floor workers perspective is the pay that they receive. I work every day for eight hours, what do they do? We do the work, they supervise and make 10 times as much as we do. What value exists in their labor? Their poor decisions have devalued their companies. There is no way that every day for eight hours they are working at their desks, creating value for their company. A factory floor is a dangerous and sometimes extremely hot place to work, sometimes or shop floor is over a 100 degrees and people faint from exhaustion. These executives take long lunches and coffee breaks and do nothing. Also, please do not try to institute their education as a means to justify their pay. I like many of my fellow workers are college educated. I have two B.A. degrees and many of my fellow works do as well. The people that do not have college degrees are educated in shop and robot mechanics. It takes a lot of knowledge to program the machines and robots that assemble our cars. If you think that a degree grants intelligence try having an executive fix a weld failure a robot is making. The executive will do what they have always do, supervise a worker who has the know how and pat himself on the back for fixing the problem.
I know that someone will try to defeat my perspective and that is fine, I will respond to any comments. Please remember that taking away from those not responsible and paying those who are responsible for failure is an outrage. Also, please no longer refer to us in the "Made in America" movie perspective. UAW workers are intelligent and what to make their companies economically productive. I hope that Stephanie Ramage will look deeper into this issue and expose the true reason why these companies are not economically sound. And my final note is that under our recent contract all new employs will make 14 dollars and hour. I certainly do not see how 14 dollars and hour will make these companies economically fit nor this country. At 14 dollars a hour these worker will not be able to afford homes nor the cars they are building.
Sadly this county is becoming a big shopping mall with only service industry to support us. Everything is made in China, and as long as it is cheap no one cares. The US auto industry supports millions of people and generates billions of dollars in taxes and wages spent in this country. Please don't blame the messenger for the message, nor the worker for failed management. Next time Mrs. Ramage when you get in your Mazda smile when the engine starts and a few more people lose their jobs by your choice to support foreign companies. And to your complaint of UAW wages, maybe you should be paid on the scale of Japanese journalists and receive the same constitutional rights they receive.
Dear Anonymous,
I deleted the lengthy comment after yours because it distracted from yours (and the author--who doesn't seem to understand that Pat Buchanan is an isolationist--has already hogged our blogs quite a bit with his remedial ramblings). Yours is actually worth reading. You make several excellent points.
I think the rigid compartmentalization of workers on the production line is worth looking into more extensively. What good is your union if such a disparity exists?
Please know, however, that American journalists have been competing with journalists overseas for a decade thanks to the internet. Yes, hard as it may be to believe, the BBC has given virtually all American online media a run for our money. We are also competing against domestic news producers. There is no monopoly of any Big Three in news. The web busted anything close to one. I already earn the same thing (maybe even less) than the average Japanese journalist. And my Mazda Protege's assembly wasn't even here (to my knowledge, only the Mazda 6 is assembled in the U.S., feel free to correct me on that, but I asked Mazda about it). My Mazda has, nonetheless, employed Americans. Americans sold it to me and they maintain it. Honda and Toyota employ Americans at their assembly plants.
I wish you the very best and hope that you and your family will be okay.
--Respectfully, Stephanie Ramage
I wanted to re-post a really informative part of "anonymous"' comment, here:
"Congresses wants to have parity between the foreign and US companies in respects to pay and I agree. However, this should relate to executive pay. One shocking comparison with US and Foreign auto companies is their hierarchy of management. Chrysler who sells less cars than Toyoda has somewhere between 30-33 vice presidents for certain operations, Toyoda has 3. Something is seriously wrong here when a company who sells less, has ten times more management. Also the contrast in pay is jaw dropping. The average Toyoda executive makes 10-12 times more that its average worker, while a GM executive makes 350 times. [This information can be found a newsgroups.derkeiler.com or type in gm vs Toyoda executive pay at Google.] Rick Waggoner makes 9,500 dollars a hour, what a joke. He has taken a company that was once 50 dollars a share down to under 3 dollars a share. If any of us ever preformed at this level we would be fired. The executive pay has to be cut to Toyoda levels.
The biggest problem I see from a floor workers perspective is the pay that they receive. I work every day for eight hours, what do they do? We do the work, they supervise and make 10 times as much as we do. What value exists in their labor? Their poor decisions have devalued their companies. There is no way that every day for eight hours they are working at their desks, creating value for their company."
--SR
Stephanie,
You seem to not be able to grasp that it is not the union wages that are causing the problem here. It is a fact that the foreign companies are not making any money, sells are down nearly 38%, and the expect to be in the red by next quarter. Let me tell you, they pay NO union wages and have NO union workers. I can tell you that my husband makes
$28.32/hr with 13 years service. He has taken 2 paycuts in the past 3 years. Why don't you really investigate, and tell us how much the average Honda and Toyota auto workers make. I mean the workers, not the workers plus the 1/2 million reitiree's on there backs. Break down the hourly wage and the health care costs. Separate them, because I have NEVER seen any worker have to be held to that standard. Call those companies and find out. Don't call your next door neighbor or Senator Corker. Call Toyota, call Honda. I think you will find that they are all about the same or that in fact Honda workers may make more. Why don't you fix the problem that we face with this, instead of going along with it.
And let me assure you Stephanie, they shut down the Automobile making lines during WW2 and turned the factories into war machine
plants. They had too, Japan bombed the hell out of the Hawaiian Islands, so, our President had no choice but to declare war. We were attacked. My grandmother made parts for Army Jeeps in Anderson Indiana, at Delco Remy, where she worked in a crap hole factory for 30plus years.
And let me also tell you, I think it is crap that an American owned company would use Editors from other country's and put you out of work either. THAT is the problem, THAT is what is wrong with our country. It seems that there is no alliance to our own anymore.
The fact is the southern states do not like Unions, you say, do not help the big three, it is throwing tax dollars away. Number one, we also pay taxes, number two, are they kidding?, the southern states give millions upon millions of dollars in tax breaks( as does Mazda get them) to the foreign companies to lure them to assemble cars in there states, then send there Govorners ( just one example) to meet with Obama with a hand out hoping to recoup some of their tax dollar losses due to handouts to the Japanese.
DO you get it? They give millions to the Japanese auto companies in tax breaks then ask our federal
government for a handout for their state programs such as medicaid, unemployment, and so on. What the heck? Why don't you report on this? This is bull crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why don't you report on this phenomenon. Why should they expect any federal money ( my tax dollars) after they go and give millions to the Japanese? They need a bailout after they give up millions in tax revenue.
Do you see the hypocrisy?
And if you will go so far as to really do the investigating to the things I pointed out, go a little further. Drive around towns such as Anderson, Ind. Norwood, OH, and Detroit MI. see what happens when the factories shut down. Check out the current crime rates, the graduation rates, the unemployment rates. Truly go and see with your own two eyes. This is what our whole country may look like if the Auto Industry fails. Millions upon millions will be out of work, I just do not think most American's get it. I know you do not! Not yet anyway.
One more thing Stephanie, these factories that you describe, are the "old" way. Today, these factories are ran very differently. Each employee must know every job on the line. It is a team concept. Also, if they miss 1 day that can be grounds for termination. It is no longer the factory of the 70's or 80's. And you state you do not want any worker to loose their homes or cars, let me tell you that either way, most of them will, that is the sad part, if they take a pay cut of $10.00/hr, and only make $18.00, most will loose everything and will file bankruptcy. If the big three go under, they will also loose everything. There is no good answer for the union worker. And, to make sure you understand that from here on out, no new hire ( if by chance the big three are still in business) will ever make this type of salary again. They will make $14.00 per hour, they will never be able to get a home loan or a car loan. They will barely get by if they get by at all. I have not heard one person stand up and ask the foreign auto makers to lower there new hire wages to match the new union wages of $14.00/hour, have you? Why do you not advocate this? The big three have built big gas guzzlers, do you understand they built them because that is what people wanted? Before gas went to $4.00/plus a gallon, this was not as big an issue for most of us Americans who want what we want! And we all wanted big! They build what the people wanted, now they are degraded for it.
Jennifer and Anonymous,
As, I've mentioned before, I'd like to reserve this page for UAW workers and their families, like you two. I am paying attention and am interested in what you have to say. -- Best, Steph
By the way, my hyusband works at the Indianapolis Metal Fabrication Plant in Indianapolis, IN. a GM factory. He has taken 2 paycuts in the past 3 years. We get 5 doctor visits per year with a $25.00 co pay, that is for a family of 6, and that is not per person, that is to be shared. We have 4 children, so you do the math. My husband pays nearly 1/3rd of his check to taxes. I understand that we are no different than most Americans and have it better than a lot. but trust me, we are not living high on the hog, and I am sick to death of hearing it. We drive older Gm cars, a 1991 S-10 and a 2004 mini van. We own a modest small 3 bedroom home on a small lot in an older neighborhood. Our children go to public schools and our oldest son has to live at home and attend the local small community college, because it is the best we can offer him. He also has to work 5 days a week evenings at UPS so that he can pay for as much of his own needs as possible. He is 19, I beg you to tell me if this sounds like a rich family! Your idea of what we are and how we live are out there. You really have no idea. You do need to learn the truth before you talk about us! And if this is for UAW workers and there families, that does include me and my family.
Jen (and Anon),
You are very welcome to be here. Thank you for your information. I have a question. Anonymous says the following: "A factory floor is a dangerous and sometimes extremely hot place to work, sometimes our shop floor is over a 100 degrees and people faint from exhaustion."
Is that also the case in your husband's experience? If so, isn't that the kind of thing the union is supposed to address?
And, here's another question: How long has your husband been employed at the plant and how long has he been a member of the UAW? -- Very best, Steph
Of course the factory is hot in the summer. It is a factory. I am sure the plants do the best they can to protect the workers. It is just the way it is Stephanie in a factory such as these. They are greasy, dirty, hot, smelly, dangerous places to work, they are not air conditioned sterile environments.(and fyi, many of our inner city schools and older schools have no air conditioners either, and are very very hot places for our children to attend class's in.) That is part of what makes them so crappy to work in, that many could not stand it. That is why the union has tried so hard for the pay that the workers get, because these are not the easy cake jobs so many think they are.
And, my husband worked as a temp worker for 1 and 1/2 years, then he was hired on. He has been a full time worker for 13 1/2 years ( so a total of 15 years). He has been in the union for 13 1/2 years. He has seen his pay slashed, and our health care benefits slowly become less. And, please if you really check the pay for a Toyota worker, say one at the Kentucky plant, be sure to estimate what that one will make after 13 years of service, or how about after 28 years of service as many of these workers have worked. Do not compare them with someone on the job for 5 years or 10 years. That would not be fair either.
I know a gal that works at the Toyota plant in Hebron Kentucky. She has been employed 6 years, she makes around $56,000 a year, before taxes, that is only a few thousand less than my husbands pay of around $58,000. So see, I happen to know that they are not that far apart, and really if the gal at Toyota already had 13 years in, would she make the $58,000 if she is already making $56,000 with just 6 years in?
We understand that we will loose more, before the executives will, before our Senators will, and before our bankers will. But that does not mean we have to take it lying down, and that does not make it right.
Can you just imagine what you may have said on Hardball about the union if you thought they had made the auto companies put air conditioning in all of it's factories? It is almost more than I can take to think of what you and other's would have said about the Unions and the workers then, you would have acted like we were riding in fancy jets, or taking special favors from lobbyist in Washington!
And for the record, when you go buy a computer desk at Walmart, that was made in China on the backs of the slave labor of children or the poor making $2.00 an hour, bring it home, and pay your neighbor to assemble it for you, does not mean it was made in America, now does it? Nor if you have to get a carpenter to come out and fix it for you if it becomes wobbly or broken, does not mean as much to me as a truly made and repaired in America! After all, where do most of the parts that they fix your Mazda with come from? I hope it is from here, but I doubt it.
Let’s try another approach. I think all will agree that most American workers have taken a large pay cut including auto workers. Another large expense to the Auto Dealers is the extreme high cost to advertize. Let’s purpose another way to help the Auto industry. All newspapers, TV and radio companies reduce their advertizing fees by 1/2 and all of their employees, including Ms. Ramage, take a 50% pay cut. This will put what the American worker has had to deal with in the last 20+ years into prespective!
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